How do you turn a retention crisis into a talent acquisition triumph?
Scott Sell, Mercy’s Chief Talent Acquisition Officer, unpacks the strategies that helped this Midwest healthcare leader slash turnover and attract mission-aligned talent. Discover why Mercy prioritizes candidate experience as fiercely as patient care—and how their bold shift from “quantity to quality” created a pipeline of compassionate, purpose-driven hires.
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[00:00:00] Scott Sell: One of our recruiters on our team, her husband ended up developing blood clots in the leg and quickly, you know, brought him into a mercy facility, but as she's brought into the room, the nurse that comes in to take care of her husband in a life and death situation is someone that she had just hired, literally like.
Six months ago. So when you see it all come to fruition like that, you realize the responsibility that we all have.
[00:00:26] Dave Travers: So what does it really take for your business to attract world-class talent today? I'm Dave Travers, president of ZipRecruiter. And on Talent All-Stars, we shine a light on the people and the day-to-day processes behind recruitment and retention at some of the world's most influential businesses.
Today's Talent All-Star is Scott Sell, the Chief Talent Acquisition Officer at Mercy, a huge healthcare system based in the Midwest. And as you'll hear in this conversation, Mercy is notable for a couple things. First, it's a nonprofit, so it's very much a mission and values-driven organization. Also, Mercy actually wants to be a disruptor, and that means bringing in a lot of talent from outside the healthcare industry.
Scott Sell, Chief Talent Acquisition Officer at Mercy. Welcome to Talent All-Stars.
[00:01:14] Scott Sell: Well, good morning. It's a pleasure to be with you here today.
[00:01:16] Dave Travers: Awesome. Scott. So, Mercy, people who may live out on the coast may not know, but is a huge healthcare system. So you've got a big job and lots of responsibility.
You've been there for 12 years. When you got. The tap on the shoulder that we want you to run talent acquisition. How did you approach taking a job of that scale for the first time as you'd come up through TA, but now you're the leader.
[00:01:39] Scott Sell: Yeah, no, great, great question, Dave. You know, so what I will say is that, um, as I did get that tap on the shoulder and was asked to lead all of talent acquisition, the one piece that I recognize having come from other industries before I joined healthcare was that, Wow.
Mercy, itself was very innovative, very much known for being cutting edge. Healthcare as a whole, when it comes to the human resources and talent acquisition was a layer. So, you know, I joined Mercy and truly, I mean, our, our recruitment advertising was one traditional job board that we had and all our eggs were in that basket.
And the piece that you really observed and noticed was we had to diversify the way we attracted people. I mean, um, you know, I think what a lot of individuals don't realize, myself included, prior to joining healthcare, is you've got every functional area and scope that runs underneath this healthcare umbrella.
I mean, we've got finance, legal, human resources, marketing, compliance, fundraising, philanthropy. I mean, there's so much that really make up the healthcare, uh, gorilla that, that it is. So part of what, what I recognize with the elevation was we had to be able to attract applicants and from all different walks of life.
I mean, we obviously with those healthcare positions, you look for, you know, people that obviously have nursing background, physician background, those things. But in many of the other areas, myself included, when I joined Mercy, never worked a day in healthcare in my life. Before that, and you know, one of the things that I heard loud and clear when I joined Mercy was, Hey, we're looking to transform healthcare.
And it really wasn't just a catchphrase or, Hey, this is, you know, this is a good marketing jargon here, but you really did when I had an opportunity to meet with the CEO and the chief financial officer and other senior leaders. You really understood that they recognize that the healthcare system and the way we delivered care was not at the same standard of other industries.
So part of being able to do that is you don't bring in 20 people that have spent the last, you know, 20 years in healthcare and say, Hey, we're going to transform healthcare. Part of our ability to do that was bringing in. Individuals and talented executives from all different industries and functional areas to really be able to bring in more creative thinking, better collaboration.
So the other piece was, I remember coming in when I met with the Mercy team and, um, you know, and, and in between interviews, I would, you know, talk to, to some of the, the coworkers and caregivers, and there was a very consistent message of how much they love this place. They really recognized me for my entire self.
You didn't need to look at a mission value poster because walking through the organization, I could tell it was a ministry that was committed to quality. Uh, committed to continuous improvement, but people treating one another with care, compassion, respect, and dignity. And then many people had told me we're sort of the best-kept secret out there, which I thought, Hey, that's great.
From a cultural standpoint, probably not a great talent acquisition strategy though, right? Uh, so, you know, so, so my, my whole thing was, I don't want to be the best-kept secret. I want to get on top of the rooftop and I want to, I want to yell and let people know, you know, how great this organization is, what we do for people, the, the opportunity to grow, the opportunity to bring your entire self to work physically, mentally, spiritually.
It's just unlike anything and anywhere that I'd ever been before.
[00:05:09] Dave Travers: Okay. I love this. So, so you, you touched on marketing and not wanting to be the best-kept secret, which is, as you say, like a charming, endearing, and wonderful quality for people to feel, but is not what you want when you want to make sure you're getting the best talent.
So how do you advise someone who's starting out on this journey that you've been on where they may be coming in? And there may be some existing practices about how you get candidates and how you approach recruitment marketing, but those are the old practices. How do you advise someone who's starting and wants to start from first principles?
How do we do this right? Why would you approach it?
[00:05:49] Scott Sell: Yeah. So I would tell you, I mean, the first thing, um, you really have to understand is what is the story? What is your employee value proposition? You know, because other industries and, and certainly healthcare falls into this as well, you don't have a down and out nurse sitting at home thinking, Oh my gosh, I can't find work, right?
These folks can pick and choose any place they want to go. So, why Mercy? And so part of what we really needed to do from a, from a marketing standpoint. Is what is that message that we're trying to communicate and convey, and for us being a mission-driven organization, a not-for-profit, it's a big piece of who we are.
And it's a big reason that people stay within Mercy. So what we really wanted to do was, and I think back in my very early stages of recruitment, I always remember, you know, you cast the widest net possible and. And a wide net's going to drive, you know, quality, uh, it's going to drive quantity, and it's going to drive diversity.
But I really felt like in this situation, less was really more like it, more focused on the quality, less on the quantity. What I wanted to make sure that we were providing messaging, that applicants and consumers really had an opportunity to understand who we were before they applied, because while it's a great culture for many individuals.
Like some organizations, it's not always for everybody. So what we wanted to really do is provide clarity in terms of who Mercy is, what's our mission about, what makes us different so that individuals at that point of, of looking at jobs had that opportunity to either self-select themselves in or self-select themselves out.
And we were able, I mean, you know, just the, the, the testimonials alone. I mean, you know, like when I talked about, you know, when I came in and I interviewed and all of that, all informal conversations, be able to sort of capitalize all that and then really deliver that in a cohesive message. Uh, really made the difference.
And I will say you're better to underpromise and overdeliver than, than to do the other thing. You know, it's, I mean, it doesn't work well to say, Hey, we're all this. If that's not what you recognize when you come in the door. I mean, recruiting talent is one piece of, of the puzzle. Retention is the other key piece.
So if you, you know, if you're just churning through folks, um, you're not doing any good. So I think there's self-awareness that needs to come into play. Uh, but I think we did a really good job with that. I think, you know, 2015 we changed the EVP. We were able to really talk a lot more about who we are as a ministry.
I think as individuals then would come in to meet with us, they really recognize that we weren't just any other healthcare system, that it really, you know, we pride ourselves in taking care of, uh, of our patients, but taking care of the communities that we operate in. It's, uh, I mean, we, you know, I, I've always said, you know, regardless of where one sits on the political fence, or you hear about, you know, healthcare, you know, mandated by government or, or this and that, the one thing that I really tended to appreciate.
Coming into Mercy day one is knowing that I worked for a health care ministry that never turned anyone away that had health care needs. I've read, you know, horror stories of people coming in and dying in the parking lot because, you know, their insurance, you know, didn't have valid insurance or whatever it may be.
Mercy will not turn anyone away that needs their health care taken care of. So you really did, you understood you were being part of something that was much bigger than yourself. And that's the kind of people we wanted to attract. So that'll, you know, kind of lead me to, is my scope of responsibility increased.
So I went from leading a team of, you know, 18 people to roughly 140. And, you know, part of what, what I've always said, and I think really cascaded and, and, and felt amongst all the team here. Is when you recruit someone, you always think about, you know, Hey, if I was to hire Susie and my family, my loved ones needed health care is Susie, someone that I would feel comfortable with in terms of entrusting her to, to have that, that responsibility.
And, and you can say, you know, we, we say that and we mean it and case in point. We had one of our coworkers, uh, one of our recruiters on our team who basically her husband ended up where he was developing blood clots in the leg and where it can turn into where it goes up into a clot into your lungs and quickly, you know, brought him into a Mercy facility.
And you can imagine she's, she's a nervous wreck, you know, she had another family member that passed away through a situation like that by not getting help immediately and everything that we needed. So right away, got him in, got the care, but as she's brought into the room. The nurse that comes in to take care of her husband is someone that she had just hired literally like six months ago.
And so that connection of, I want to make sure that anybody we bring into this ministry, it's one thing to say, you know, they've got the skills and the knowledge to do the job, but it's having the heart. That's truly what I believe separates Mercy from a lot of other healthcare organizations is that there's a real compassionate heart for what they do. It's not, Hey, this is what I do. I get a paycheck. There is a mission and a quest to make sure that they are providing the best care possible, that they're being transparent. You know, when you're at your most vulnerables, when you, when you're in a healthcare situation, but here was a case in point where she thought, gosh, you know, never thinking when I made that offer six months ago, that this was going to be somebody that would be caring for my husband.
In a life and death situation. So when you see it all come to fruition like that. You realize the responsibility that we all have.
[00:11:26] Dave Travers: Scott, what's so powerful as you talk about that is the mission when you lay it out of is clearly so important and it's so visceral because. A lot of mission-driven organizations struggle with, I know we have this amazing mission.
How do we communicate it? And when I hear you communicating about the mission of mercy and how that impacts who your talent is you're going after and how that resonates with them, instead of explaining you know, this is our culture. This is our mission. You give stories about how other people have experienced it in real life stories about a recruiter who then becomes a patient or the caregiver for a patient or the loved one of a patient, or you talk about what your own recruitment experience was like, and not what the interview was like, but in between the interviews, when real people were having real conversations sort of thing, and that brings it alive in a way that I think when other talent leaders can think about how they convey the mission, don't explain, let me tell you what the four tenants of our mission are that you can read here on the poster instead, you know, bring it alive in a story. That's so powerful. One of the things though, a golden nugget that was buried in what you said was, um, as we were talking about recruitment marketing is you talked about making the shift from quantity to quality.
So I want to double-click on that and say. How did you identify that as an opportunity? How did you know that you were having success and how did you do it? Like, how did you think about, Hey, there's an opportunity here. How did we make a change? And how did you measure it or, or deem that you'd, you'd had some success in making that shift?
[00:13:04] Scott Sell: Yeah, it's a, it's a great question. So we really wanted to take more of a three-pronged approach in terms of our selection process. So, first off. Is that criteria fit, which, you know, whether you're a recruiter, whether you're a hiring leader, that's the easy part, right? You know, as you know, do they meet the minimum requirements?
Do they have the skills, knowledge, and background? Those are the things we can ascertain relatively quickly, but it's those things that are not on the resume or a LinkedIn profile that take a little bit more digging, you know, below the surface. So number two for us is, you know, what we call mercy alignment.
And I always say every organization I've worked for. It's always had their own sort of buzzword for it, but it really is that cultural compatibility, right? Those individuals that truly our values, their values coincide, then it's perfect because you don't have to check out who you are when you come in.
And when I leave, I get to go back to being who I am. And then really the third prong, the sort of the approach that we use here, Dave, is talent fit. And with talent, I will say Mercy is very much all about strength management. And, and what that is, is we like to know, what is that caregiver? What does that coworker, what are those natural talents that are just part of their DNA?
It's part of who they are. It's how they're wired. I always say it's those things that keep you up at night. It's the things that get you up in the morning, but. We know as a health care ministry that when we put our caregivers in a position where they get to play their natural strengths and talents, the beautiful thing is it never feels like work, but you get a paycheck every other week, which is sweet, right?
So what we don't do is look at a talent profile and say, gosh, you know, Susie's really strong in these areas. Um, not so strong here, but we'll work with Susie on those areas that aren't of strength because that's what we need. That's injustice to Susie. That's not setting her up for success. I've shared with my team and I've said this to friends, colleagues, and others, but if it's Sunday night, tomorrow's Monday, and you've got to go into work and you're dreading the fact that tomorrow's Monday.
You're in the wrong place. And I will tell you, we've had some tough days here, uh, within Mercy in the 12 years that I've been here, but there's never been a Sunday night where I'm not excited about coming back to work on Monday. And I shared with my team, I said, like, if you ever feel that way, you need to reach out.
You need to let me know that. And, and again, I think as long as you play to those strengths. And at one point I always felt like I could fix people. Like, you know what, you know, if Susie had the right work ethic and she had the right drive, I could get Susie where she needs to go. Um, and I think about when I first joined Mercy and one of my, my phone was ringing off the hook about a nurse recruiter that wasn't showing up for planned meetings, uh, wasn't turning around candidates on a timely basis.
So then I remember meeting with that individual, and I remember taking a look at her talent profile and you seen that time management was not her strength. But at that point, so very early in my time at Mercy, I'm thinking I can fix people. So I, I remember, you know, putting this individual with a mentor who was my best time management individual that I noticed in my first, you know, uh, several months.
And she shadowed her for gosh, good 60 days. 60 days later, we turned her loose. My phone was again, ringing off the hook, but now they were saying, Scott, I don't know what kind of miracle you, you did here, but it's night and day. She is, we are getting great delivery. It is really working well. And so me and this, you know, coworker were high fiving each other.
We're thinking we turned the corner. And about another 45 days, the phone starts ringing, but the message is now changed. And what you find out is it wasn't sustainable. It didn't come natural to this individual. So no matter how much time and effort we worked on those areas that were soft, it just wasn't ever going to be the thing that, you know, she was wired to do.
So all to say, we found another seat on the bus, a recruitment wasn't the place for her to be, but it really did help in my own growth as a leader to really recognize even more on that talent and strength science, which is take those things that are strong. You can continue building upon those if they already are natural and strong.
Just keep building on it because those are the areas that one can continue to develop.
[00:17:18] Dave Travers: Such a powerful framework there because I think like the, the natural tendency of someone who's an emerging leader, like you were talking about early in your career is to say, okay, I've got someone with strengths over here and weaknesses over here.
What I'm going to do is say the strengths are great, and I'm going to, you know, try to brush up the weaknesses. And what is so powerful about what you're saying is sometimes, it's okay to have pointy people in certain areas where they're not this well-rounded. Everything's equally strong, and sometimes tripling down on the strengths is way more powerful than trying to fix the weaknesses when you can live with that or find the right role where the weaknesses are totally fine, as you said.
Okay. So one of the things you touched on that I thought was so interesting as you talked about the way you think about your role is you touched on the word retention, which is actually not a word that often, talent acquisition leaders see as their problem, frankly, you know, like I bring the talent in and then it's up to the organization to hold on to them.
And what I love about that is obviously, you know, thinking about the whole organization and not just the, the recruiting function, that's a very powerful lever and I think a lot of talent acquisition professionals and leaders actually struggle with that, with their own departments, even. So how do you think about driving retention of the high performers and the people you want to keep?
And how would you advise someone who's taking this on for the first time? I'm coming into a place where like a lot of places, there's a retention problem of my best talent acquisition pros. How do I turn that around?
[00:18:57] Scott Sell: Yeah, it's probably two years into my time at Mercy. I remember again, phone calls ringing off the hook.
Oh my gosh, Scott, we've got a recruitment problem here. We've got a recruitment issue. So I'm, you know, getting all these calls. I'm talking to the recruiters, and, you know, they're saying, Scott, we're filling positions left and right. So then we, we, we got in and we started digging into the data. And the reality is we were filling positions, uh, extremely fast, but they were losing them as fast as we were bringing them in.
So then, you know, basically I provided the data. And once they looked at it, then leadership said, Oh my gosh, we don't have a recruitment issue. We've got a retention issue. Well, the fact is, and just as you said here, Dave, that didn't take that off my shoulders to say, Hey, okay, not my problem. Because, you know, what I said is today's retention issue is tomorrow's recruitment issue.
And the fact is, we have to get to the bottom in terms of why are we losing these individuals? And we take accountability on that from the recruitment side, right? Is there, you know, again, are we providing full clarity on what this position is? Tendency of recruiters is part of what we need to do is persuade people, right?
I mean, we're not the only organization in town. So we want to be persuasive, but we also have to be realistic and we have to be honest. So sometimes it's digging in to say, Hey, are we providing a true vision of what life is like working in this area? So I think to your question, you know, in terms of what do you do from the retention standpoint, it starts with having the right leader, because, you know, again, every data point, every article you read out there will say.
People don't leave companies. They leave their leaders, a lot of truth to that, right? I've always said right or wrong. We spend more time in the workplace than we do at home. And that's just the reality of it. So you want to make sure you're with people that truly you respect their, their relationship built on honesty, integrity.
All of those things. I think having the right leader in place is important, but I mean, we, you know, again, we're going through some challenging times. I mean, our first-year nurse turnover, uh, hovers around 44 percent at one point was as high as, you know, 50, uh, 52%. We've got other positions that are more entry level where we're seeing, you know, 75 to 80 percent first-year turnover.
And, you know, part of what we've had to do to really. Sort of offset that is like, those jobs aren't going to go away. They're like, we need someone to do that work, but we have to provide an organization where you have the opportunity to grow and expand. So, so maybe you accept that position for the job.
But you choose Mercy for the career, and we've doubled down on our internal mobility, uh, strategy. When I joined Mercy, if you wanted to make a transfer, you could not do so until you had 12 months of service. Here it is, you know, 2018, I'm looking at my leaders saying, you know, like, listen, nobody's going to suck it up for 12 months if they're not happy.
And if, and, and do you want somebody to suck it up for 12 months if they're not happy? I mean, what is that? Translate to in terms of team dynamics and, and patient care and quality. So we, we did a complete about base and we, and we, we basically removed that 12-month barrier. So then I had leaders coming to me and said, Oh my gosh, Scott, you know, a time it takes to train somebody and get them all up to speed.
And you're basically saying they can just get up and go three months into their time. I'm like, look at the data, it's happening. The problem is they're leaving mercy to do it. If they stay within Mercy, guess what? It fills one position. It's only created one void. If they leave Mercy. We've got two open positions here, right?
So I will say, you know, with the, with the focus on the internal mobility, we hired just shy of 24,000 caregivers in our last fiscal year. I would say roughly 18 percent of those were transfers. And prior to us making this change with the internal transfer process. Uh, we were probably hovering around 8% of transfers.
So significant, uh, increase. And, and that's where we need to continue to go because Dave, and, and you, you, you, you look at this far, much more than I do, but you look at the, those, those talent end da data analytic pieces, right? And, and we know that, you know, the [00:23:15] talent market continues to shrink, right? For every five people that are retiring today. There's only two and a half, three entering the workforce. So even if you were naive enough to say, Hey, we're just going to hunker down and kind of operate the way we are today, that's not going to work. So we have to really, once we get somebody in the door here, if they're culturally connected to who Mercy is and they feel the calling, we have an obligation to help them grow their career here within Mercy.
And we've done a really good job with that, uh, over the last couple of years.
[00:23:46] Dave Travers: I love what you talked about in the internal mobility and driving 8% to 18%, et cetera. And what's so powerful about having recognizing that the talent is often already in the building is that those people who successfully internally transfer and have had success and have grown and have a steep learning curve multiple times in their career.
Often are the most, to bring our conversation back, are the most incredible communicators and case studies on employee value proposition to people who are thinking about coming in the organization. This is a place to your point where it's, it's not necessarily a job. There's a career here. And to be able to show that rather than say that is incredibly powerful.
So that's so amazing what you've done. Okay. Scott, so much incredible stuff we go on all day here, but. I want to get to our traditional way to end, uh, an episode, which is pretending you and I are, are in the elevator. We've only got one minute, um, and I'm the CEO or other executive at Mercy. And, um, I see you there, and I was like, Hey, Scott, Hey, how's it going in, in talent acquisition?
What's the number one thing we need to accomplish in talent acquisition over the next 12 months?
[00:24:59] Scott Sell: I would tell the CEO, COO, same, uh, rules apply with our patients. Our patients have many other choices and options outside of Mercy, but we provide a value proposition to where they choose Mercy. Same thing on the career side, that our candidates, you know, again, we're not the only opportunity in town, we have to provide an experience.
That is as seamless and as easy as anything else. And as consumers, and that's what our candidates are today as consumers, we expect things to be simple. We expect things to be able to navigate through things easily. And let's face it, recruitment processes haven't always been that way, right? We've got these bulky ATSs that were built in the late 1990s, early 2000s.
And when they built these things, it was never for candidate experience, right? It was, Hey, you guys need this because this is your repository of all your data and information. But the reality is those organizations that set themselves apart really have to be able to provide a candidate experience that is the best, uh, regardless of industry.
So don't know if I made that within the, within the one minute, but I would say the same, the same methods that apply in terms of. How we attract patients is the same methodology that we need to apply when it comes to candidates and applicants. And the fact is, unlike patients where, you know, we're not going to refuse any patients, the truth of the matter is we are going to say no to some applicants.
And I remember, you know, dealing with a hiring leader where, you know, Scott, this candidate's got 15 years of experience. So the experience checkboxes is fit, but when we look at that Mercy alignment and that talent alignment, they're very soft on empathy They're one who you know, it's a job and and when and my conversation with this candidate The reason they're doing this job is their their mother did it and then and then her mother did it, you know So it was just sort of passed down but there was nothing that was discussed about the pride of what?
What I do and why I bring myself to work every day. So, so the fact is, is that, um, we are going to say no to some candidates, but I want that experience to be so good that even in those moments of, Hey, not going to be the right fit. I want that candidate to walk away saying I was treated with the care, respect, and compassion that mercy is noted for.
And guess what? If my family or loved ones ever need any of their health care needs treated, that's where I'm going to. And that's a tall task to deliver because nobody wants to hear no when they're looking for a job. But we take the time to, again, really make sure that we're looking to provide mutual alignment.
And sometimes it's just not that.
[00:27:48] Dave Travers: So what's so great about that answer. So there's obviously a ton of smart content that you put into directly answer the question, but you've, what's so powerful about that for executive communication is you started with the patient. You started with what's the whole organization do now that I put that in context, let me use that same patient framework to think about how we think about talent acquisition, as opposed to diving right into the ATS issue that Trying to solve, which as a, as an executive, like grounding yourself and explaining, I am part of this whole organization.
Now, let me explain to you what specifically I need to do is such a powerful communication tool. I love that Scott Sell incredibly insightful and powerful chief talent acquisition officer at Mercy. It's very clear why you're a talent all star. Thanks so much for being with us today.
[00:28:37] Scott Sell: Well, thank you very much again for the ability.
Opportunity to participate in this. I've really enjoyed the conversation, Dave.
[00:28:47] Dave Travers: That's Scott Sell, the Chief Talent Acquisition Officer at Mercy. We'll put his LinkedIn profile in the notes below. And just a reminder, we put the video versions of these conversations on YouTube too, on the official ZipRecruiter channel, and if you have feedback for us or ideas for future episodes, send us an email at talentallstarsatziprecruiter.com. I'm Dave Travers. Thanks for listening to Talent All-Stars. See you right here next time.